I don't even want to watch it. I'm vegetarian. I went vegetarian after a lecture given by my middle school principle about how humans weren't designed to eat meat during health class. "We" are the only 'animals' that don't eat our meat raw and ripped. Supposedly, Americans only started eating beef during the westward expansion to keep from starvation. Sadly, vegetarians are still the minority. I didn't really care for it anyway. I remember my mother letting me play with some crabs in the bathtub one day when I was a little kid, and felt so bad when they got cooked, I didn't want to eat them. I still eat dairy and eggs.

It's so serious about the beef and the rainforests. I mean, it's like the earth's lungs being torn down, just to overfeed us and make us sick. That's just my opinion. That reminds me of an article I read about a study regarding some kind of carcinogenic element that is created when fat drips off of meat and lands on barbeque charcoal, then gets into the meat from the smoke. Supposedly one steak cooked in that manner is equal to the carcinogenic effects of smoking a 100 cigarettes, in regards to the effect on the human heart.

I hardly know any vegetarians. My family and most of my friends are all die hard meat eaters. I remember my last Whopper from BK's 19 or so years ago. I just sat there, looking at the patty, consciously thinking about where the meat came from, and just didn't want to eat it. I still get them occasionally without the meat patty. I think they taste even better that way.

Yeah I agree roxvelt. Aborigines consider themselves part of the environment, rather than the environment being something just to use and abuse. And in a post I made earlier, I did make the point that I think the most guilty consumers out there (ie. mainly people from developed countries) do so because they don't have to connect the meat on their plate with an actual animal. They just go to the butcher or the supermarket and buy it, nicely sliced and cleaned in a plastic package, so they never have to think about the impact of what they are eating.
And while I do eat meat, there are certain things I refuse to eat because I feel the environmental impact is just too high. I won't eat veal, because I think the method of feeding the calves is atrocious, and I don't eat northern bluefin tuna because while it is considered the 'best' tuna, it is being severely overfished and the wild populations just can't keep replenishing themselves.
We all need to stop thinking about our world as a commodity and start realising that unless we look after it in every way possible, our world and the human population aren't going to last that much longer.

I'm passing on watching the video as I'm too aware of the atrocities of the business of breeding, torturing and killing animals for profit, and I'm not a fan of horror movies--even though those are fiction and I know this is real which makes it worse. Regarding Aborigines culture, I think it's good you brought that up, because I do think it's important to see the difference between how industrialized societies, where we buy most of our food, consume animals, and societies where it is still common to actually kill what you will eat. Because--ok, I am not an anthropologist nor am I a member of any indigenous culture, so I'm no expert--in a society such as the Aborigines, one might have a deeper consciousness of the connection between the life of that animal, in addition to the plants and water and sun, and everything that connects with us in the cycles of life and death, so the dead is not just "food" or a "turkey sandwich" or a pair of boots, there is a spiritual connection.

I'm glad you pointed out the Aborigines, Cloudonmytongue, because it is a different situation than most of the "Westernized" industrialized world.

SammyJay, yeah I do think veggies tend to be better informed because we have to find alternatives to products that don't come from animals, which is not always easy. Like I was totally horrified to find out the other day that some beer manufacturers use processed bones or something to make it, and now I have to find out which ones, because I *love* beer and I can't give it up! Also, a couple of good places to buy non-leather stuff are http://www.vegetarianshoes.co.uk and http://www.pangeaveg.com plus there are others if you do a search on google or something. Vegan products do tend to be more expensive, but they last long, (Pangeaveg uses products that come from fair trade companies that don't treat their workers like slaves, (they say)) so though I pay more, I just don't buy stuff that often. Works out fine!
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"vibracatholiquefixion"

Cloudon.. I apologize for jumping to conclusions myself.
(check your messages)

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Free thinkers are dangerous

Thanks Cazly. Again, I'm not criticising vegetarians, I was actually initially responding to Corey4tori's comment that all vegetarians wear leather shoes. I was trying to point out that to say that is a gross generalisation, and as for those who do it's either because ethics is not their reason for being a vegetarian, or they haven't thought all the way through their decision.
As for the lion and antelope thing, I think it isn't wrong. For a lion to eat an antelope is part of the natural food chain, and while the antelope must die for the lion to eat, plants had to die for the antelope to eat too. Lions have no choice but to kill to eat, so I don't really think it's wrong.

cloudon - i hear what you're saying! its like, i had i friend who turned vegitarian, who still ate big macs because 'oh its not real meat' similar thing with the shoes...

this is a matter of ethics more then anything.. and again, im not trying to be disrespectful, or trying to change anyones mind etc, but im curious, so i have a question for you.. is it wrong for a lion to eat an antelope?
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Sammy that's not true and not what I meant at all. Most vegetarians are well informed and make ethical decisions for a reason, and I never said that all vegetarians are ill-informed, because it's not the case.

Having said that, wouldn't you find it strange if you met a person who told you they don't eat meat because they don't want to kill an animal, but then didn't think about the consequences of killing an animal to make shoes or a handbag? I have, and thought it was strange that they simply hadn't thought about their decision further than their food.

Obviously other vegetarians don't do this, and I don't think I ever said they did. I'm not judging the decision to be vegetarian at all, what I am saying is that there are some people who are only think about animal cruelty when it comes to food. Of course that the decision not to eat meat is made for more reasons that the animal cruelty one, but that is what I am talking about here.
Where on earth did you get the idea that I make generalisations?

I love animals, they're DELICIOUS.

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Cloudon.. sounds to me you tend to make a lot of generalizations about other people.

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Free thinkers are dangerous

What I meant was, that some vegetarians don't eat meat because they don't like the idea of killing an animal for food. But then they wear leather, forgetting that an animal still had to die to create that piece of leather clothing. So they are making a conscious choice not to eat meat, but then forgetting that animal products are also involved in the production of many other consumable goods that humans use.

Of course, there are vegetarians who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste, and for them I would imagine it's not a problem. What i was really talking about is the people who say they don't want to be responsible for the death of an animal just so they can eat, but don't think about the animal that died to make their shoes or handbag.

Sure Cindy, it's true unfortunately. Native Americans are not perfect, but they were (and many of them are still) closer to nature and animals much more than other peoples. We, "modern people", citizens and consumers are the reason why the planet is suffering and dying (but not only, of course). Not them. Besides, we have the choice to do something to save our planet and to stop killing animals for pleasure or for our stomachs only, but animals have no choice.
I'm not judging anyone, I'm just saying what I think. It's good to talk peacefully. That's why I love this place...

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"How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different."

just to be more specific, Cloudon, what exactly is an "ill-informed vegetarian"?
never heard of such a thing myself.

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Free thinkers are dangerous

I just wanted to emphazise the fact that I for one was not judging anyone at any point and I apologize if I sounded like I was.
Cloudon; I would like to know what you meant by the following line: "You will find that it is ill-informed vegetarians who wear leather, not vegans, for this reason."
and btw, I don´t wear leather

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Free thinkers are dangerous

Daffy, Clucky, Bambi, Peter, Elsie and Babe all taste pretty good in jerky and stew. Sorry, but I'm keeping my summer sausage and shank steaks too.

Besides, I know my dad's wife (an avid vegetarian) would gladly eat the heart of an artichoke, an ear of corn, a head of lettuce or even the skin from a potato. Plants are living as well, do they not matter because they "can't feel?"

I'm not judging anyone for their lifestyles, I just don't want to be judged for mine.

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"Cut it again!"
- Tori...

Animal lover I am. Humanitarian I am. Vegetable lover I am. Health-conscious I am.

Willing to make an impact by cutting down on furry-animal consumption I will.

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The sexiest thing is trust.

Cindy, we have a similar situation here in Australia. There are many endangered animals, and it is an offense for most people to even get too close to them. But Aborigines who choose to live a traditional lifestyle are exempt. While I support their right to live as they have for the last 60,000 years on this beautiful land of ours, there has to be some way to allow them to live in that way and yet preserve our unique wildlife population at the same time. Perhaps a quota or limit that each community may kill and eat per year?
I don't know the answer, but somehow we have to find a way to enable Aborigines to live their traditional life, and yet also protect our animals. After all, if no limit is set and the animals become extinct (through many factors rather than just being eaten), they won't be there for anyone to enjoy, much less for the Aborigines to eat.

Well done, fairyfireflies. You captured everything I was thinking.

AliceRhianon - I get what you are saying, but Native Americans in recent times have sought to be exempt from regulations under the U.S. Endangered Species Act so they could kill protected birds such as bald eagles for ceremony and their feathers. In the '80s the chief of the Seminole tribe in Florida was prosecuted for killing a Florida panther, which is highly endangered and which he ate. This prompted a legal battle between the rights of Native Americans vs. environmental protection laws.

Fire, you are fabulous! Thank you for penning these important points and wisdom. I'm gonna read it all again.

Onward~
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Having "The Piano" is like having your Multi-Tori-Vitamin every day.

~Misty Leigh

(side note not a short tangent)
<-- spent many years as a vegan by personal choice, no righteous political outrage. 9 years for 14 till I was 22. During that time I learned of the inhumane way many animals are caged and reared. Live through the infamy of Mad cow without a blink of a care as it did not pertain to me. I just had issues eating Elsie, Bambi, you get it right. Cute little fuzzy creatures.

Over the years I have adopted back into meat eating. Mostly out of love and huge constraints of choosing to share a life while going broke fast on the two different diets. Its more of a compromise these days, but I still cling to the veggies, and eat more fish the fuzzy creatures, and I’ve managed to move my love out of a constant diet of Doritos, soda pop, red meat, and potatoes into a world that is a little more green =)

Some points to ponder. Their are millions of species now on the red list for extinction on this planet, none of them being animals that are mostly consumed for diet.

Each of these animals plays an distinct role in our ecological systems, and will directly effect the pace at which global warming continues, and lets face it, if their is no livable earth their is no food, and we ourselves become extinct by means of our own consumption., greed, and need for more, more, more, now, now, now, and of course at the lowest price possible. We do not want to pay for well treated animals, Wal-Mart would not be the powerhouse it is today if the majority of people weren’t look for low prices and the biggest bang for their buck. While the organic market has grown over the last few years, (thank god) I comes with a price tag that most developing countries, and lower to mid class families could never afford on the wages they make.

Their is also the impact of a world of vegetation eaters. Supply could not possibly keep up with demand, the farmer would become the new rocket scientist and many of our vegetation options would be lab rats so to speak. Again this continual demand of edible vegetation would lead to over harvesting, depletion of hat little forests we have left, more acceleration of global warming as we swallow the vegetation that helps to curb harmful carbon emissions, contribute to the demise of recreational parks, protected wild life, and a quaint stroll down a country road and place large demands on general QUALITY of life issues.

While living on the green side of the table is lofty and a very healthy life style, it is not a lifestyle that would contribute to better quality of life on earth for the mass's as a whole. Look how well it worked for those of the dinosaur age.

We already inhabit more or the earth then the earth can return the bounty on. We could learn a lot from our past when it comes to eating habits. Less is more and a balance between every day conscious and healthful eating choices. We could learn a lot from Asian cultures which while not strictly vegan, have a beautiful and balanced relationship with whole grains, fruits, vegetables, fish, and less emphasis on Beef, Poultry, Pork, glutens, and supper processed chemical concoctions filled with triglyceride raising, heart killing toxins such as super processed starches and high fructose corn syrup.

I applaud every person who choose to live a more healthy life. This is a survival of the fittest world. But their has to be more behind a decision to be Vegan, or vegetarian then just the morals of animal life. Through my own journey I have become more active in over all health which is the best thing for this entire planet. When you focus on the big issues, the little ones have a way of righting themselves. After all it is the big issues which kill.

Today an elephant will die because of a whole gone mad on Java. That is sad, but I don't see STARBUCKS or FOLGERS going out of business any time soon! I don't need to draw it out with an animal VS cause and effect to paint the picture. Native American's spent years eating buffalos, but the foreign invaders killed off the population for sport alone. Their are many moral issues when it comes to animals and the history of man, mayhap all contributing to where we find ourselves as a culture and society today.

Do I think animals need to be treated more humanly. You bet I do. Lets starts with all of our discarded pets that are abandoned and left to be rescued or gassed because someone made a bad choice.
Lets work on Eco important species who's demise would directly effect our own ends. Lets teach our children to lat of the Twinkies (another chemical concoction) and teach the the real value in a balanced meal. Lets get a way from mass farming practices which kill the important top soil of our countries just for our tomato fix and look at the working farmers in your community who probably could use the money more, and have more organic roots and ethics in their cultivation.

Make you choices, but remember always the big picture extends beyond each individuals personal agenda.
Decisions based on propaganda only lead to more propaganda. When we make choices for the right reasons they become good habits, when we make them for the band wagon, they lead to temporary fads, let fadce that we have pockets full of politician and big business investors for fads.

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Our treasure lies in the beehive of our knowledge. We are perpetually on the way thither, being by nature winged insects and honey gatherers of the mind". -Friedrich Nietzsche

I am a vegetarian, but don't feel it makes me better that anyone. It's silly when someone comes to you and says: 'oh, you're eating a poor COW- how it feels to be a corpse-eater??!' Come on... Man should protect animals and respect their rights; we're all the divine creations But vegetarianism is a good thing as fas as it's a personal decision, right? In my view gealach said an important thing- it's to do with being humanitarian, not just ideologically involved.

We can easily choose to not eat meet, that's a point. For example, I don't care if my friends and family are satisfy or not or if they are bothered or not by my lifestyle. That's my choice and that's how I am. Nobody can't makes me change. I choose to respect Life.
And about natural foodchain, yes it was true long time ago, but not now! Humans eat too much meat and now the planet is in danger because we didn't respect the Circle. That's why I always believed in Native Americans's wisdom. They knew it was important to not "kill" our Earth and to respect every creatures. Now, we can't go back so we must change our way of life if we want to stay alive. But, it's only my opinion and that is why I see around me.

And, it's also easy to not wear fur or animals's skins. There are many great and beautiful clothes made with natural or synthetic stuffs.

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"How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different."

I'll second that there is a decided difference between Vegetarians and Vegans. It is most certainly a lifestyle. The problem with it is... that animals are used in so much more than food and apparel. And quite honestly... If it were not for modern technology, Vegans would be hard pressed to find anything to wear.

I mean, imagine if there were no textile industry... a true Vegan would have to spin his or her own yarn and thread from cotton grown in a field plowed either by hand or tractor (no live animals to pull the plow, but lots of petrol to run the tractor). Silk and animal pelts are off limits.

Dairy products are off limits.. so there is a need for synthetic (processed) foods and supplements. And of course, the idea that eating organic is somehow going to save our global resources is ludicrous. I side with the idea that there would certainly be a mass reduction in food production, hence worsening an already growing problem of starvation in the global market.

Modern Veganism is a reaction to society and the value it places on animals. But I honestly believe that most Vegans, if forced to choose, would value their own survival over that of an animal. If that animal's flesh or pelt was the difference between life and death I believe a human being would consume it rather than die for its survival.

I'm just glad we live in a world were that choice is available. Not even 100 years ago, Veganism was simply not a choice to be made.

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"Cut it again!"
- Tori...

hmm, I stopped the recording as soon as I realized what it was going to be about. and it's not the matter of being shocked or something- I just don't need such the pictures to get interested in the way people treat animals 'sentenced to death'.
This is not only the problem of eating meat, I think. This is a problem of mentality. In my opinion being a vegetarian has to be preceded by being humanitarian, which is far more important.

i couldnt watch it either.. i've seen enough animal abuse to last a lifetime, being a member of WSPA however, i still do eat meat... i make my parents buy free range or organic tho... im very anti cage. with what im about to say, i want u to know that im not trying to change anyones opinion, and i really do respect all of those who are vegan/vegetarian, but the way i see it is that we're part of a natural foodchain. us eating meat is no different to a lion eating a zebra for survival... or a shark eating one of us, except that we have a conscious. however, i do really resent the fact that we, as humans take so much more then is needed, so theres so much waste and unnecessary slaughter, and i hate the the human race treats all other species with such low standards you know?

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Vegan is a lifestyle, Corey4tori, not just what you put in your mouth. It's an ethical decision based on a moral objection to the way in which many animals are used in industry, without thought for their welfare or suffering, solely for human benefit. This means that vegans do not use anything that came from an animal - it's a lot of work!
You will find that it is ill-informed vegetarians who wear leather, not vegans, for this reason.

Well, Im an omnivore, and it seems to have done me well. Folks need to realize that cows are bred, not captured in the wild. We have the teeth to eat meat, and the enzymes in our stomachs to digest it, so it seems likely that we are supposed to eat meat. Besides, how many vegans wear leather shoes?

ajtcl, I think you make an interesting point by what you DIDN'T say. For you to have killed your own meat gives you an insight which many in developed countries will never have. I'll bet half the kids in America and Australia don't even connect the steak on their plate with the cow in the paddock. They have no comprehension of the fact that what they are eating has caused the death of another animal.
It is this, coupled with the developed world's obsession with decadence, that is to blame for our world's problems with regards to food. If developing nations cut back on what they consumed, there would be plenty for developing nations. Also, if nations produced food appropriate for their climate we would be a lot better off. I've never understood why we have rice farmers in Australia - one of the driest continents on earth, producing a very high water requirement crop!
At the same time, however, in many ways I do not agree with eating organic food. I know that they are apparently healthier for you, but earlier this year I saw an interview with the guy who created 'superwheat' - the wheat strain that is most common on farms now (I've forgotten his and its name!). He said that if the whole world were to only eat organic, non-GM foods, there would only be enough food produced to feed two thirds of the world's population!
I am a meat eater, but that doesn't mean I eat meat every day. I believe this is, in part, what is causing not only the drain on the world's resources, but also the childhood and adult obesity problem endemic in many developed countries. Meat is NOT a staple, fruit, vegetables and grains (including rice and wheat) are. Dieticians only recommend we eat meat 3-4 times a week. I see no need to eat more than that.

I haven't watched the video either, but have seen SUpersize Me. I began eating a vegetarian diet ten or so years ago and have never looked back. I won't hold it against someone if they want to eat meat, to each their own, but we do have a serious resource problem on this planet, and cannot keep feeding the voracious demand for meat we have as a species. Enjoy it while you can. In a few hundred years we will all eat vegan.

"Nothing will benefit humanity and increase its chances of survival more than the evolution to a vegetarian diet." - Albert Einstein

Absolutely. We should follow our heart, in my opinion. Meat-eaters, vegetarians or vegans: let's do what we have to do. It's up to us to decide.

--
"How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different."

I'm still a meat-eater. I'm sorry that these atrocities are what they are. It is sad how commercial farms have all but destroyed the mom and pop farms of the past. But mass production is a reality.

I will say from experience, killing and eating an animal is not easy. We like deer here and dealing with an 800 to 1000 pound deer is not a task for the light-hearted. But any kind of meat eating is full of carnage.

Watching animals in the wild tear into their living pray is not easy either. Nature is by its own creation a cruel thing. Life and death are just part of the circle. And I refuse to feel guilty for eating a hamburger or a chicken sandwich.

I'm not judging anyone here. I think it is a choice that is very personal to the individual. My dad's wife is a vegetarian. She is trying to convert him... but my dad is like me. We have to have our steak and potatoes too.

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"Cut it again!"
- Tori...

Same thing for me: I didn't watch. I've seen/read too many horrible things. That's why I'm vegan.

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"How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different."

It is tough, really - to have accepted this truth... now to rearrange the budget because eatting organic foods is way more expensive... hey, anybody have a juicer they want to sell? For cheap...?

My daughter is in with me on this decision... peanut butter, here we come!

Someone referenced Supersize Me - that movie? They said that haven't touched a fastfood joint in years.

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Having "The Piano" is like having your Multi-Tori-Vitamin every day.

~Misty Leigh

Thanks for posting this Misty. Very enlightening. And depressing.

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The sexiest thing is trust.

I´m not even going to watch that. I´ve been a vegetarian since the age of eleven and will be ´til the day I die.

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Free thinkers are dangerous

i've been a vegetarian since '73. i used to be a 100% vegan... but started going on binges probably due to lacking certain nutrients. Now i also eat non-fertilized eggs and a little bit of dairy. One must be careful. i cannot believe some of the brother-in-laws in our family... die-hard deer hunters (among other animals). If God put them on this earth for us to eat.... why do they run like hell when hunters pursue them? i have pet birds... and some of them talk in complex phrases... even asking questions and making comments (that we did not teach them)! Have you seen the latest news reports about the chimps doing better with computer oriented stuff than did college students!